A Stronger North America, A More Powerful Canada

April 5, 2005

Following is an edited transcript of an interview first broadcast on the CPAC television program “Talk Politics” on April 5, 2005. Interviewer Ken Rockburn discusses the work of the Independent Task Force on the Future of North America with Thomas d’Aquino, Chief Executive and President of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives. Mr. d’Aquino is the Canadian vice-chair of the Task Force, which on March 14 issued a Chairmen’s Statement calling for the creation of a North American economic and security community by 2010.

ROCKBURN: On our show tonight, an international task force says that Canada, Mexico and the United States should consider closer economic integration. It is chaired by a former Mexican Finance Minister, a former American Republican Governor and a former Deputy Prime Minister of Canada, John Manley, and it has proposed continental integration on a large scale and the creation of a security perimeter that would encircle North America. Maude Barlow of the Council of Canadians said, "Manley was using the threat of terrorism to further a business agenda." But my next guest, in a commentary on CBC Radio, called this “the doomsday choir” and said, "It is always the same tired rant by the same group of extremist nationalists." That man is Tom d’Aquino of the Canadian Council of Chief Executives, and he joins me in the studio. Thanks for coming in.

D’AQUINO: Nice to be here, Ken.

ROCKBURN: Were you surprised that this independent task force suggested we move toward some form of integration?

D’AQUINO: No, Ken, given that I am a vice-chairman of the task force and have worked very, very closely with all the players. It was not easy arriving at this consensus, but there was a universal view among the Mexicans, Americans and Canadians that North America now is, in fact, a community of sorts. Our geographic contiguity, the degree of economic integration, the cross-fertilization culturally – all of that points to a North America that is very different today than, perhaps, some people think. So that prompted us to be bold rather than timid. 

ROCKBURN: When we talk about integration, we could be talking about a number of different things – economic integration, social integration, political integration – and they may or may not be inextricably [linked]. So what were the issues that came up when you were dealing with all of this?

D’AQUINO: One of the fundamental principles of the Task Force was that North American security is indivisible. The United States, Canada and Mexico can never be secure unless we accept a more or less common agenda for the security of the continent. So that is one reality. The second reality is that the level of economic integration that exists right now is irreversible. Last year 17 million trucks crossed the border between Canada and the United States [and] 500 million people crossed all three borders. You cannot just roll that back. So if those are the fundamental principles, [the question is] where do you go from there? We said we do not want to create a European-style union where we are all marching towards political union. We are three independent countries, each jealous of our sovereignty. So what are we trying to do? We want to achieve in our institutional relationships, in our policies and in our regulations a greater recognition of the interdependence that we currently have and that we must have in the future against two continuing challenges. One challenge is the threat of global terrorism, which we know is not going to go away. And the second is the economic challenge from China, India and other low-cost economies. If you put these two things together, you have two very powerful catalysts that are going to compel us to work more closely together.

ROCKBURN: That being said, I worry, like a lot of other Canadians, that this is the beginning of the slippery slope. We have concerns that are for the most part economic, and the Americans have concerns that are for the most part, at the moment, security-related. I worry that their concerns will trump ours every time. Even a publication as prestigious as The New York Times is still perpetuating this illusion that Canada is a staging platform for terrorists.

D’AQUINO: It is absolutely not true.

ROCKBURN: Not true and yet it persists at the most basic level of American perception. And it is almost like we are now trying to accommodate that.

D’AQUINO: Let me challenge you on that point. There is not a single proposal in the Task Force recommendations, or in the work that preceded it in our own organization, that cannot pass the national interest test. It is wrong to say that security trumps trade. Is the fact that Canada is the largest single foreign supplier of energy to the United States a security issue or an economic issue? It is both. Canada supplies 100 percent of their electricity imports, over 90 percent of their natural gas imports and more oil and oil products than the whole of Saudi Arabia. Of course, that is trade, but it is a huge security issue as well. Thirty-nine American states consider Canada their most important export market. Is that security or trade? It is both. Do we want borders that work for Canadians as well as Americans? Of course we do. Do we want to get more leverage for the energy security that we provide to the United States? Of course we do. This idea that we are doing this because if we do not, the Americans will punish us, is fundamentally wrong.

ROCKBURN: You are saying we have more leverage than we think?

D’AQUINO: Of course we do. And one of the ways to exercise that leverage intelligently is to tie it together in a package. I just came from a five-city speaking tour of the United States. In audience after audience, people were thunderstruck when I said to them, “Do you know that Canada is your largest single foreign supplier of energy?” People said, "Oh, I didn’t know that." Or, "I thought it was Saudi Arabia." Or, "I thought it was Mexico." Americans have to know the facts. How is it that a publication as prestigious as The New York Times continues to promote this deeply erroneous view that we are a staging ground for terrorism? I asked my American audiences, “Did you know that the vast majority of illegal migrants who come into Canada do not come across the Atlantic, they do not come across the Pacific? They come from your country. Your country, with 12 million or 15 million illegal migrants, is a greater threat to ours proportionally than we are to you.” It is this wakeup factor that I think is so important. What the Council on Foreign Relations Task Force has attempted to do, as we have been trying to do in our own organization, is to educate Americans and Mexicans about these realities. Then they begin to see that we are tied together [and] that there has to be some give and take. You respect us and we will respect you, and we will come up with policies that work for Canada, the United States and Mexico.

ROCKBURN: The Bush Administration seems to have a security agenda that supersedes the things we are talking about here. If you want some kind of economic integration that evolves beyond where it is now, how do you get them to accept it?

D’AQUINO: This really proves my point. Up until the March 23 summit in Texas, there was an argument that security trumps trade – that the only thing the Americans are concerned about is building military might and sealing borders. Did you see the accord they signed in Waco? Most of it deals with economic issues. What does this mean? It means that the Americans have traveled in the course of the last year from a “security trumps all” agenda to one that recognizes that security and economic security are inextricably interrelated. Look at the agreement the three leaders signed. They talked about steel; they talked about the automotive sector; they talked about the financial sector; they talked about resources. They talked about how those sectors should work more closely together and deal with inefficiencies in order to meet the challenges that are coming from Asia and India. When President Bush and President Fox and Prime Minister Martin spoke, they talked about the great economic challenge to North America.

ROCKBURN: Some people would say that the Americans did not want to talk about the other stuff.

D’AQUINO: But they did agree, and I think it was a very important transition. The fact is that the agenda is much bigger than security. [The three leaders] committed themselves to bringing forward reports in 90 days. Some of this will be about smart borders, but most of it will be about how we can work more closely together economically.

ROCKBURN: In a world where we are starting to see this sort of closer integration, how do we deal with areas where we [disagree]? I am thinking now about environmental issues. The Americans did not sign on to Kyoto; we did. They are going to allow drilling in the Arctic, and it is something that the rest of the world pretty much thinks is an abomination. They are willing to do a number of things that Canada is not willing to do.

D’AQUINO: Let me shoot bullets through some of those myths. Any environmentalist will tell you that the United States spends more per capita on environmental technology than does Canada. So this “holier than thou” view on the part of Canadians is unjustified. Second, when it comes to drilling and exploring and environmentally sensitive things, who are we to teach the Americans any lessons? I mean, British Columbia is going ahead with exploration off the West Coast. We have exploration off the East Coast. We have exploration in environmentally sensitive areas of the North. So in reality, we are not very different.

ROCKBURN: We are as rapacious as they are – is that what you are telling me?

D’AQUINO: We use more water than they do. We use more energy per capita than they do. So this business about them and us – I think we need a reality check. Now, do I agree with some of those rapacious policies? No, I do not. Should we be more environmentally sensitive? Yes, of course. Should we be using less energy per capita? Of course. But I consider myself a very strong nationalist – not an extremist but a nationalist. We do not want a single currency. We do not want a single army. We do not want a single Congress. We do not want a single set of regulations on everything imaginable.

ROCKBURN: Or a single citizenship?

D’AQUINO: We do not want a single citizenship. Those are all things that the Europeans are trying to build and we have explicitly said – I feel this very strongly– that we do not want it. The Americans do not want it and the Mexicans do not want it. That is the reality of North America. There is no thirst in the United States to annex Canada. What we are talking about is closer cooperation to make the continent work. The real test is, does it meet the Canadian national interest? There is not a single recommendation in the Council on Foreign Relations Task Force report – and in the work of my organization – that does not meet the national interest test. Of course, the nationalist extremists will try to scare people by saying water and culture are on the agenda when in fact they are not on the agenda – not of this Task Force, not of my Council and not of the Council on Foreign Relations. I am one of the co-authors of the Task Force report and I can tell you categorically that when you read the final report you will not find a single reference to water and culture. Yet the extreme nationalists keep repeating to the people of Canada that water and culture are on the agenda. It is a great way [for them] to raise money.

ROCKBURN: Let me give you an analogy – Tibet and China. I am told that in [the Tibetan capital of] Lhasa, Chinese culture is coming to dominate. It is not a dramatic, big-bang takeover. It is that slow, inexorable change that comes from these things being there, day after day. There are Canadians who fear that this is going to happen to us.

D’AQUINO: Ken, in the First World War, Canada raised an army of 600,000 and took 160,000 casualties. We were leading players in the Second World War. We were co-signers of the United Nations Charter. We are key members of NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization]. For the last seven years, contrary to the doom-and-gloom predictions of the extreme nationalists, we have had the fastest growth and the best job creation in the G-7. The Economist magazine refers to us as an unfinished masterpiece. BusinessWeek refers to us as the Maple Leaf marvel. How can we even begin to compare ourselves with Tibet? Culture in Canada has never been stronger. We were told that [after free trade] our culture was going to be swamped and destroyed. In reality, we have never had as many cultural programs. We have never had as many symphony orchestras, as many artists, as many writers who are internationally recognized. So these predictions are bogus. There is only one way to maintain your sovereignty and that is to be economically strong and confident. All I can say to the extremists is, “Buck up, get a life,” because Canadians . . .

ROCKBURN: (Laughs)

D’AQUINO: . . .  because Canadians year after year in the Maclean’s annual poll say that we are confident about ourselves. The strongest support for free trade is not in the United States or Mexico but in Canada. Why? Because we were told that we were going to become hewers of wood and drawers of water and we were going to be annexed, and in fact the opposite has happened. We have been running back-to-back surpluses in our trade with the United States ever since we signed the Free Trade Agreement.

ROCKBURN: In our last couple of minutes, I want you to give me a very concrete picture of this new world. How would it look if you were standing in Windsor, Ontario, looking up at that bridge? We did that during the last election and I was flabbergasted to see the lineups – not just the trucks and commerce, but the cars driven by people who [live on one side and work on the other]. What will change?

D’AQUINO: Let me give it to you very simply. Last year, 17 million trucks and 225 million people crossed the border both ways. How many of those 225 million were terrorists? Was it one? Was it five? Was it 10, 15 or 20? Are we going to put in jeopardy a relationship that is so interdependent for the sake of 15, 20 or 30 people? So what you do is you use smart technology to solve your problem. And how do I see Canada 10, 15 years from now? As a sovereign, powerful, independent country. In image terms, the United States might be the bottle of milk, but we are going to be the layer of cream.

ROCKBURN: But will we be able to get through their border into that bottle of milk?

D’AQUINO: Of course, and the reason is that if 39 states consider us their most important market, we have this degree of interdependence already. Part of what I and John Manley and others are trying to do through our work with the Americans and the Mexicans is to get people to understand that only by working together will we be able to avoid [problems] on the security front and at the same time make North America more competitive, which will mean more jobs and more investment in North America. It is as simple as that. If you do that, we end up with a North America that is stronger and a Canada that will be more independent, more sovereign, because we will be more powerful than the Canada we know today.

ROCKBURN: Good of you to do this.

D’AQUINO: Thank you.